This Week's Gay Debate: A Prime-Time Opportunity for Straight Talk on Marriage

Posted August 8, 2007 | 11:49 AM (EST)



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Thursday night the country will get the opportunity to hear Democratic presidential candidates discuss the lives and needs of gay and lesbian Americans during the forum hosted by Human Rights Campaign and Logo. The forum comes in the midst of a year that has seen record advances for gay rights, and early in an election cycle that has already seen Democratic candidates showing increasing comfort in addressing the need to end discrimination and exclusion that harm couples and their kids. One longtime gay advocate put it this way:

"In 1992, we were begging Bill to say the word 'gay' at the convention, and that was considered a major victory," said David Mixner. "Here we have every candidate for the Democratic nomination showing up to the debate, all supporting civil unions, two of them (Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich and former Sen. Mike Gravel) supporting marriage, and all of them trying to figure out how they can support marriage and get away with it."

The good news for the candidates is that they can, indeed, "get away" with supporting marriage; in fact, they will do better by taking the position that most Americans believe they already have, given their professed support for gay rights and dance around marriage itself. As I wrote in a previous post, there is growing evidence from elections around the country that candidates who vote right on marriage do just fine.

Here are some further guidelines for candidates seeking to stand up for their values (love, commitment, fairness, freedom, equal treatment). By answering the inevitable question this way, they can cogently make the case for marriage in a way that finally enables them to move on and throw the challenge back at opponents. If the presidential aspirants follow these guidelines and remain true to their professed commitment to equality and fairness, they will not only gain the unwavering support of the gay voting bloc [PDF]and Americans who care about justice, but they will also win the respect of the vast majority who can certainly live with a candidate they may disagree with on a question that for most is not a top priority.

Asked whether they support ending same-sex couples' exclusion from marriage, candidates should reply:

I recognize and value the dignity and worth of all families. I believe in marriage and the good it offers society, and respect those who accept the commitment, protections, and responsibilities of marriage. Allowing same-sex couples to share that commitment does nothing to diminish my marriage with my (wife/husband).


Freedom of religion means that churches, synagogues, mosques, and other religious institutions may decide whether to marry any particular couple. But a democratic and constitutional government should not discriminate as to which couples get a marriage license. Government should not be putting obstacles in the path of people seeking to care for their loved ones, nor should government create unequal classes of citizens.

America is strongest when we support all our people equally and build strong communities. Because I believe in fairness for all American families, I support the responsibilities and security of marriage for same-sex couples willing to take on that commitment.

I disagree with those who would use this question to divide the American people. The majority of Americans believe in equal rights and protections for their fellow citizens, and so do I.

A clear, principled answer like this will not cost a candidate support, and will enable him or her to move on to other questions the campaign would rather spend more time addressing, questions that voters consistently say are the ones that make the most difference in their choice of a president.

Candidates seeking to explain their position further should talk about real couples, real kids, and real emotions and values, such as treating people the way you'd want to be treated. They should move beyond abstractions and buzzwords to concrete examples [PDF] of the protections and responsibilities that come with marriage that are being wrongfully withheld from taxpaying citizens. They should describe how marriage protects families and children, protections that gay and lesbian Americans, in our common humanity, need too.

There are ample resources available [PDF] to assist candidates in refuting the tired and tinny "gloom and doom" claims made by opponents, and to arm them in making the case for marriage equality.

By following these guidelines, candidates should now be able to get beyond saying they are for equality while still falling short [PDF] of actually supporting equality because they are stuck at "civil unions" or other unequal legal mechanisms. Having gotten the "what" -- equality -- right, candidates can now move to get it right on the "how" -- ending exclusion from marriage.

The audience for Thursday's debate, and every subsequent presidential debate, is looking for our nation's leader. A clear, credible, and coherent answer in favor of the freedom to marry during this prime-time opportunity will permit candidates to show leadership, win respect, and move on to the most central questions of war, national security, health care, education, the economy and increasing wealth gap that all gay and non-gay Americans need to tackle together to get our nation back on track. And their support for marriage equality will not cost the candidates any support they would have gotten anyway, even as it helps couples, kids, and the country, a win/win.

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collapse  CornellRedneck (See profile | I'm a fan of CornellRedneck)

I fear the dem candidates are walking into their own quagmire by even going "where wise men fear to tread". Why become cannon fodder for the right wing?

collapse  Kundera (See profile | I'm a fan of Kundera)

pulling defeat out of the jaws of victory....

once again.

how bout nominating a Northeastern liberal again??

you know the definition of insanity, right?
trying the same thing over and over again with the same result.

collapse  lowlycitizen (See profile | I'm a fan of lowlycitizen)

The "separate but equal" stance by other Democratic candidates will not cut it anymore. I pay tax, serve a jury, and vote as all other citizens do. I should be afforded with the same rights they do. Anybody who denies equal rights on the basis of religion or tradition has no business representing the rest of America.

collapse  giventofly (See profile | I'm a fan of giventofly)

I could not agree more. Just as we slowly became horrified with the treatment of minorities in this country, I hope and pray that we will (quickly) become horrified as a nation of our blanket discrimination against the GLBT population and anyone on the basis of sexual orientation.

collapse  Qbear (See profile | I'm a fan of Qbear)

What have you been smoking?
ONLY Kuncinch and Gravel will step up to FULLY Equal marriage Rights for gays/lesbians.

All the rest will stay at civil unions, which is the queer ONLY drinking fountain of this Century, or instead of the back of the bus we now can ride in the middle seats. My partner of 5 years and I don't want either civil union or marriage for ourselves...so my rant isn't personal. MA has years of evidence already, that the fears of gay marriage were TOTAL LIES. Not one hetero marriage was threatened, not one minister was forbidden to rant against queers, not one church was forced to perform a same sex marriage...it was a 2K event all over again.

collapse  egallery (See profile | I'm a fan of egallery)

Well said, Evan! My partner and I have been together eight and a half years. I completely concur on the point of religious organizations and what they may feel about the issue. It should not be considered in the way our government treats a minority of citizens.

collapse  bbln (See profile | I'm a fan of bbln)

On Thurs, I don't believe any of the top Democratic candidates will come out for marriage equality - only civil union with full federal rights. Still as a pragmatist, it's a risk - especially in swing states - an article today in Politico states -

"Quinnipiac University polls of voters in Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania -- the big three Electoral College swing states -- found voters by large margins more likely to see the endorsement of a gay rights group as a reason to vote against, rather than for, a candidate."
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0807/5290.html

collapse  timbo212 (See profile | I'm a fan of timbo212)

I was really worried when I saw a similar story. But look at the actual data. Yes, more people said they would use it as a reason to vote against rather than for a candidate - but what they aren't reporting is that BY FAR more people said that it didn't make a difference - half or over half said that they didn't care, then said they would vote against, then said they would vote for. If you combine those who said it would make no difference and those who said they would be more likely to vote for a candidate who supports gay rights, they outnumber those by 2 to 1! A very interesting angle that some media outlets are taking.

collapse  timbo212 (See profile | I'm a fan of timbo212)

For the numbers ... look at the side bar graphic of this WSJ article:
http://online.wsj.com/article_print/SB118662096004892481.html

collapse  Alvin4NY (See profile | I'm a fan of Alvin4NY)

Tell those that are still against gay marriage, trying to protect the "sanctity" of the institution, that the only real way to do so - is to outlaw divorce. Or at least "no- fault divorce" How many would go along with that notion? How many would say, "Awe fuck it, let 'em get married."

collapse  yellowdogSC (See profile | I'm a fan of yellowdogSC)

The reality? (In one state, at least. A tough one.)

In South Carolina, "we" (not me) shot down the possibility of gay marriage about ten to one.

That means that if EVERY gay voted FOR,:
NONE of their straight friends did
NONE of their parents did
NONE of their other relatives did
NONE of the other liberal groups did
NO liberal South Carolinians did either.

The math just doesn’t work for me, except that maybe GAYS DID NOT VOTE.

I don't want to believe any of the above.

I'm straight, as are my parents. We ALL voted FOR gay marriage.

There was STRONG support to defeat this ANTI legislation. I got LOTSO mail.

What happened?

Really, what happened?

Thank you.

collapse  billbird (See profile | I'm a fan of billbird)

South Carolina happened! Even the liberals there (my parents included) have been duped by the baptists.

collapse  yellowdogSC (See profile | I'm a fan of yellowdogSC)

I hear you, friend.

But WE weren't. And I assure you we're no different.

Just plain ol' liberals.

I think you're saying gays may have voted AGAINST their own self interest. If so, what hope IS there? (Not for gays, for EVERYONE.)

I'm sure you're NOT wrong, but can geography really affect the definition of "caring, compassionate" people?

Thank you.

collapse  ekeby (See profile | I'm a fan of ekeby)

It happened here in progressive Wisconsin too, but the percentages weren't as bad (about 3 to 1 as I recall). Unfortunately we shot ourselves in the foot because gay and straight politicos added civil unions to the anti gay marriage constitutional amendment. They thought that because there were lots of straight civil unions in Wisconsin, the measure would be guaranteed to fail. It didn't. Now straight people in civil unions don't have guaranteed spousal benefits! The irony? The anti gay marriage amendment still would have failed, but one to allow gay civil unions probably would have passed. I understand about wanting to be treated equally, but it's the rights that are important, not what you call them. Governments should sanction civil unions for all, churches should sanction marriage for whomever they want.

collapse  Democrab (See profile | I'm a fan of Democrab)

Marriage is a religious ceremony, a sacrament in the Catholic Church, a religious promulgation of procreation.

A civil union is a legal union covered in the "government" category.

A candidate having reservations about this is quite natural, and it isn't exactly like taking your hand out of your pocket to decide "for" or "against."

These things have been pounded into our heads since the inception of the bible.

Just because someone says "oh, its OK", doesn't necessarily answer all questions.

And I personally don't feel that a quick answer of "yes, go for it", fighting the years of traditional marriage, shows any kind of leadership at all.

If you're going to have real separation of church and state, why ask the government and leaders to make laws or even statements telling churches what to do anyway. Government is government, religion is religion. Why not just leave it that way and stop welcoming government into so many aspects of our lives.

Isn't their nose in enough of our business already?

collapse  deedrdo (See profile | I'm a fan of deedrdo)

the hole in your argument is that het couples who go before a judge at the courthouse, a captain on a ship or an elvis impersonator in las vegas are legally married under the law. shall we then strip them of the rights and privileges of "marriage".

no one is asking the church to sanctify marriage equality nor do any marriage equality laws even mention the role of the church. they can do whatever they want as far as i'm concerned.

this legal issue has nothing to do with the church.

collapse  LAJonathan (See profile | I'm a fan of LAJonathan)

The problem is, none of the others besides Kucinich and Gravel have enough courage to do so.

collapse  deedrdo (See profile | I'm a fan of deedrdo)

honestly, i don't know anyone who expects any great news on GLBT rights or issues tonight. we'll here support from kucinich and gravel and then the usual pablum from the rest.

i'm not all giddy with excitement over this debate but i'll watch it if for no other reason than it's another first for our tribe. when i attended my first gay pride rally 25+ years ago (there were only about 200 of us) i would NEVER have imagined that there would be a televised GLBT presidential "debate". it's events like this that make me realize that we really have come a long way in my lifetime. we have a long way to go but life is certainly less treacherous for many of us now than it used to be.

back on point, i could almost support edwards' candidacy but for his stance on marriage equality. i've heard his rational and, while i respect his right to have a different opinion, i disagree enough to stay on the sidelines for the time being.

i'm not a single issue voter but this is important to me. my partner and i would like to have full-citizen status and access to the rights that the majority of american citizens have.

collapse  queertodaydotcom (See profile | I'm a fan of queertodaydotcom)

Most queer people do not view gay marraige as their top issue. That was decided by the right, and the privelaged white gays who fell into the trap. We care about queer youth - and the epidemic of homelessness. We care about protecting all our families not just those in two person partnerships. We care about protecting trans people from discrimination on the job, and violence on the streets.

HRC endorsed warmonger Joe Lieberman, and several pro-life candidates. They have contributed to maintaining the republican majority for years. The HRC is far from a human rights group, and it offends me that they pretend to be such.

They obsess over being mainstream so much you can't even find a rainbow- the gay symbol, on their site. Their new multi-million dollar glass building is a symbol of their top-down corporate structure. So how should queers like me trust that they will handle this debate in a way that represents the true LGBT community and not the rich elite?
I wish NGLTF was hosting this debate.

collapse  yellowdogSC (See profile | I'm a fan of yellowdogSC)

Thanks.

I'd never heard any of this before. (Not as priorities.)

I'm curious to hear your opinion of my prior post (beyond simply that it isn't the highest priority, if possible.)

Thank you.

collapse  ProfessorVP (See profile | I'm a fan of ProfessorVP)

Does anybody else have to suppress a rude, snorting noise when Hillary Clinton speaks on the topic of marriage... why it's for some folks but not for others?

Why can't she be honest and say what she truly feels? "Sure, let everybody have the equal right to marry, but only if it's a loveless, sexless, cynical business arrangement, and cheating is allowed."

collapse  Freethinker (See profile | I'm a fan of Freethinker)

You must be joking. Asking the Democrats to grow a spine and stand up for something important? It will not happen in this lifetime. If they cannot stop the worst president of all time, how could any of them possibly muster the courage to tell the superstitious masses that their constant badgering of gays and lesbians is shameful? They'll hide behind the nauseating pabulum of "civil unions" and allow this discrimination to divide the electorate, not unite it.
I have a co-worker and close friend who is gay, and he wants to vote for a Democrat. So far I don't expect anyone worthy to be on the ballot, and neither does he.

NEW collapse  yellowdogSC (See profile | I'm a fan of yellowdogSC)

“An object in motion tends to remain in motion unless acted upon by an equal and opposite force."

Or something like that.

I assure you, simply standing in front of a runaway train, that knows nothing but, accomplishes nothing.

While I don't disagree, in my experience the "never" of Nixon and, Reaganbush MOSTLY came to an end with Clinton(1). At the very least, inertia was curtailed for eight years.

Patience, my friend. One day we'll have that inertia going for us again.

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terrancedc says...

I, too, was moved when I heard Bill Clinton say to a gay audience something along the lines of "I have a vision for America, and it includes you." I campaigned for Clinton/Gore that year, got courted by the College Democrats as the co-director of the gay student group, and held "A Gathering of the Cultural Elite" to watch the election results come in. Now I'm asking what that place is. It's sill not apparent.

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terrancedc says...

Why is this so difficult to say?

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terrancedc says...

I've got the cases right here.